You know, I think I turned out okay despite the fact I saw Porkys when I was, like, five.

my parents took me to see an officer and a gentleman when i was 7. and i turned out fine, aside from thinking that richard gere is the sexiest motherfucker on the planet.

aside from thinking that richard gere is the sexiest motherfucker on the planet.

Damn you! My laughing turned to coughing!

NooOOoOo Sesame Street can't go the way of candy cigarettes!

:>

you said it. May I link to you from Solomother? This says so much of what I rale against every day.

link away!

Because I was pretty annoyed by it too.

Word.

Oh and since people are sharing: I saw Eddie Murphy Delirious multiple times at age 7, Poltergeist & The Exorcist at age 8, Clockwork Orange at age 12.

We're trying to make a point that kids CAN turn out normal despite what they're watching bahahaha.

you know i took an okcupid test that told me if i were a sesame st character i'd be snuffaluffagus.

apparently nowadays people can see snuffaluffagus?!? What the hell is up with that? Wasn't the whole point that adults couldn't see him?

It wasn't that adults (or anyone else who wasn't Big Bird) couldn't see him, it was that he always conveniently wandered off whenever anyone else came around. It was kind of an unrealistic plot device for them to try to carry on for 10+ years if you think about it.

Snuffy's been "out of the closet" since the mid-80s. I remember hearing that they'd finally introduced him to the rest of the neighborhood a couple of years after it happened, and remember thinking that it was a good decision. I know it was enormously frustrating for me as a child that Big Bird was essentially constantly being called a liar by the adults and everyone else on the Street when he was just the victim of unfortunate (and pretty implausible) circumstances.

Plus, there's this point, brought up in Snuffy's wiki:

In an interview on a Canadian telethon that was hosted by Bob McGrath, Snuffy's performer, Martin P. Robinson, revealed that Snuffy was finally introduced to the main human cast mainly due to a string of high profile and sometimes graphic stories of pedophila and sexual abuse of children on shows such as 60 Minutes and 20/20. The writers felt that by having the adults refuse to believe Big Bird despite the fact that he was telling the truth, they were scaring children into thinking that their parents would not believe them if they had been sexually abused and that they had just be better off remaining silent.

Looked at in that context, it's a pretty sound decision. There's really no greater instructional benefit to Big Bird's constant frustration in trying to claim the existence of Snuffy, and from an artistic perspective, it actually teaches extremely poor storytelling. And planting the seeds of mistrust in children towards adults who are otherwise portrayed as caring and open-minded was probably the wrong move.

You and your logic. :)

I understand it's a children's show, but jesus, the pedophilia scare has really got them questioning everything. (Considering that I seem to be hearing that child crime and violent crime is at a near all-time low in recorded history.)

What you said makes total logical sense, yet I cannot help but be very annoyed at it. My Roots!! My Roots!!!!!

That he couldn't be seen was one of those lovable quirks like how in some cartoons, you only ever see the feet of certain characters. There's always that mystery. Or in some shows, the doorman who you only ever hear on the intercom, the neighbor who you only ever hear past the fence, the character who is mentioned [but never seen] in every episode, etc, etc.

I didn't have to consider that it annoyed me (it did), or that it might make me more distrustful of adults, or that pedophilia even existed. It was just a quirk I had no choice but to accept. And accept I did.

Then they go and CHANGE it!

Through the rose-colored glasses of nostalgia, I actually thought adults couldn't see him, as in yes there were unfortunate circumstances where they just missed him, but that this only accounted for 95% of it -- the other 5% being that even if they looked, they couldn't see him. (But the adults are too mired in adulthood to even bother looking, the fuckers!)

Did the wiki say anything about whether they thought about whether adults could see him before they made their politically-based decision to change continuity? I'm curious.

And, Yes -- I'm taking this very hard. My world was already shattered once, Ian. Then you have to go do it again. (hehe) I was hoping it was just incompetence, but noooo, they have to pull out some completely logical, yet emotion-wrenching "think of the children" argument. And considering it is a childrens' show, it's a bit hard to ignore that.

DISGRUNTLED SIGH.

In general, though, mistrust towards adults might be precisely what would keep a kid from hopping in a van with a pedophile in the first place. But the greater point of having your parents believe you in the first place is more important.

DISGRUNTLED SIGH

Bahaha, you crack me up, Clint.

I had no idea that was the main reason they made everyone finally "see" Snuffy. It does make a logical sort of sense--although, personally, I'm not sure most children would make the parallel between "No one believes Big Bird regarding his friend's existence" to "No one would believe me even though I'm being abused." I'd think a more likely parallel would be if, say, a child had an imaginary friend or something. But I could be wrong.

There was some online quiz I took years ago that was something like, "What dark side of Sesame Street are you part of?" and I was Snuffy's Deep Depression, apparently.

All this talk about the show is making me want to re-watch the old episodes. Rawr!

I think the fundamental difference here is the fact that it wasn't that no one else could see Snuffy, but that instead he always coincidentally left as soon as others were around. It's a subtle but important distinction, because in the first case, that would have been a cue to the audience that Snuffy was, in fact, imaginary. The fact that he was just conveniently gone when everyone else was around suggested that he was real.

Unlike Clint, I never accepted that Big Bird had year after year of bad luck when it came to introducing Snuffy to his other friends. It was enormously frustrating to me, and it probably wouldn't be going too far to say it made me pretty angry. I think even then I recognized the difference in storytelling between acceptable suspension of disbelief (there are friendly monsters and talking animals on a city block) and unacceptable (Snuffy just happens to leave whenever anyone else is about to come around). I can't say whether or not it made me more distrustful of adults, and whether I felt less inclined to tell them things that might be difficult to believe, but I still say that purely from the perspective of teaching kids the difference between good and bad storytelling, it was worth it to bring him out of the dark.

I see what you're saying, and I can see why that aspect of the storytelling was really frustrating (and how it might communicate the wrong message to children). I actually didn't remember much about that part of the show--I guess I watched it when I was really, really young and don't recall the details. :) I do have some dim memory of Snuffy running off whenever anyone else would approach, though.

I think Fraggle Rock tended to be more my fixation back then. ;)

I was really into Sesame Street, Mr. Rogers, and, to only a slightly lesser extent the Electric Company when I was a kid. I watched pretty regularly from time out of memory until at least age 6 or so. I even had Sesame Street bedsheets. :-)

Wow! That's dedication. :)

I think I saw the Sesame Street movie once--when Big Bird went missing? I remember it having really sad parts in it, oddly enough..

Yes!!

I dunno. Maybe they have a point...

...Even though I feel that a large segment of my childhood has now somehow been irreparably violated after watching that, that is still the awesomest, most glorious thing I've ever seen in my life.

*dead*

wow. just....wow.

I am suddenly reminded of the profane "Greg The Bunny" shorts produced on the Independent Film Channel after FOX canceled the show.

I agree...that is sad. It portrays today's children as incredibly fragile. I doubt anyone was traumatized for life due to seeing an overly cranky muppet.

people.


are.





idiots.

It's totally true.
I watched Sesame Street as a child and grew up into a happy fun-loving, mentally and emotionally balanced adult.

Can't you see how messed up I am?!

interesting. Found your site from Solo Mother.

I grew up on the Sesame Street of the 80s. I am baffled by the censorship of characters' smoking or drinking. but then maybe I was an odd child that didn't believe she had to copy everything on TV. And my oldest seems to be just as odd. I often censor what my kids are exposed to... but that's primarily to shield them from things like graphic violence, and to allow them to be children for as log as they can. The logic is that if they aren't exposed to something when they're young, they might be appalled by it when they are older, rather than thinking it's okay. I guess you can take that logic to extremes... But then you also have to think about the fact that there are people with mental illness that will take things they see on tv to heart, but frankly I still think Sesame Street is harmless, and far more harmless than the evening news we often subject our preschoolers to... I actually watch the newer episodes, and with the exception of Elmo's world, most of it is pretty much what it was when I was growing up in the 80s (and frankly I miss the barely verbal version of Elmo).

I also agree things like no one believing a character drive me nuts, but I think I still related Snuffy to an imaginary friend. Like if a kid has an imaginary friend, and the parents never see it, the kid would rationalize that the friend left the room as to why they don't see it... Of course I'm the mom with a 9 yr old with 10 dragons... she never had imaginary friends as a preschooler, so its weird...

Zoey drives me nuts too, in Sesame Street's more recent incarnation - it's been a few years since I watched regularly with the now 9 yr old - Zoey was always very inconsiderate of Elmo - kind of using Elmo to teach kids to be nice even when others are mean, I guess - but it still drove me nuts - situations on shows like that always drive me nuts... and they seem to be prevalent in kids' shows)